Well Gene, it's been three months since you received your shipment; do you mind if I ask how your experiments went? I'm very curious about Soma Foama.
Thanks
Duane
Silicone Valley
Go to group page
Materials needed for silicone puppets
Discussion started by Gene , on 17 July 10:22 PM
Ok Ron,
I have wiped my feet and have entered the discussion zone. I would say I want to be just like Ron when I grow up, but I’m afraid that I’m older than him.
I am ready to step into the exciting would of silicone casting. As I put together my shopping list, it looks something like this…
Hard clay ( Van Aken modeling clay) Would Sculpy work, or just mess up the cast?
Softer clay for mold build up ( Van Aken )
Aluminum armature wire
Mold cast (Ultra Cal 30)
Mold release (Mann Ease Release 200)
Silicone (Platsil gel 10 parts A and B )
Paint ( Psycho paint )
Clamp straps for mold
Available from (Burmanfoam.com)
Any suggestions or corrections would be appreciated.
I have wiped my feet and have entered the discussion zone. I would say I want to be just like Ron when I grow up, but I’m afraid that I’m older than him.
I am ready to step into the exciting would of silicone casting. As I put together my shopping list, it looks something like this…
Hard clay ( Van Aken modeling clay) Would Sculpy work, or just mess up the cast?
Softer clay for mold build up ( Van Aken )
Aluminum armature wire
Mold cast (Ultra Cal 30)
Mold release (Mann Ease Release 200)
Silicone (Platsil gel 10 parts A and B )
Paint ( Psycho paint )
Clamp straps for mold
Available from (Burmanfoam.com)
Any suggestions or corrections would be appreciated.
Replies
You will need to be a member of this group first before you can post a reply.
Gene,
Well today I received a shipment of…
1.Soma Foma,
2.Dragon Skin FX Pro,
3.Psycho Paint,
4.Ease Release 200,
5.Ultra Cal 30.
Little nervous to start but very excited to experiment.
1.Soma Foma,
2.Dragon Skin FX Pro,
3.Psycho Paint,
4.Ease Release 200,
5.Ultra Cal 30.
Little nervous to start but very excited to experiment.
Monday, 02 August 2010 19:58
Yeah, working with silicone expanding foam I find to be a bit more complicated than urethane expanding foam. Silicone foam is a thicker liquid that rises sooner than urethane foam. (under a minute!) But discussing how to use the foam might be better as a discussion of it's own so, it may be better to start a different thread about that when you or anyone else is making an attempt to use it.
I've used it on three different puppets already and each time I used it a little differently due to the shape of the mold so, there's a lot to talk about. :)
I've used it on three different puppets already and each time I used it a little differently due to the shape of the mold so, there's a lot to talk about. :)
Monday, 19 July 2010 05:49
Gene,
If you clear coat your sculpture with kroylon clear or something like that, I would think that would help insure that it does not leave a residue that would affect the mold. To me, my biggest concern is the weight of the puppet. On the armature I had better build up the body to take up the bulk. Not sure if the expansion rate of the Soma Foama is going to be a challenge or not. Ether way its going to be quite an adventure experimenting.
Monday, 19 July 2010 05:22
Van Aken clay is sulphur free - I've made a puppet out of it and cast it no problem. It's a little soft for my liking for sculpting a puppet, but no worries as far as silicone goes.
Supposedly if you've used a sulphur based clay you can burn out the sulphur in the oven then seal it but that's a last-ditch mold-already-made situation.
Supposedly if you've used a sulphur based clay you can burn out the sulphur in the oven then seal it but that's a last-ditch mold-already-made situation.
Sunday, 18 July 2010 23:54
I don't know if Van Aken clay is sulphur free or not. When I did tests, a plaster mould made from a sulphur based clay was no good - the Platsil Gel-10 did not cure on it. So check on their website.
I have some Kleen Klay which is sulphur free but to soft and greasy for good sculpting, but ok for building the wall to separate the mould halves. aFor sculpting I used Chavant NSP (Non Sulphur Plasticine) Medium hardness which is better, and both of those work fine with platinum cure silicones. I have some Hard NSP as well but haven't used it yet. Both are dark reddish- brown in colour.
All my no-name industrial plasticine, and my Roma Plastilina, are useless for silicone puppets since they contain sulphur.
I also found that if I previously cast latex in a mould, the platinum silicone would not cure on it.
Armature wire - check.
Ultra Cal 30 - check.
Mould release - I used soap - pieces of a bar of soap shaved into hot water and mixed. It worked. It also works for foam latex.
Platsil Gel-10 - check. I also tested Smooth-On Ecoflex 00-30 which is softer, another animator brought some and we cast a head in it. I like it. Unlike Platsil with Smith's deadener added, it doesn't go tacky on the surface. I will still add deadener for the stuff I pour inside. I just bought some old stock Ecoflex at half price, a big risk but I'll see if it works.
Psycho Paint - check. You need the base, and paint or pigment to colour it - I got the genuine pigments but acrylic paints also worked when I tried mixing them in.
Clamp straps for mould - check. For some moulds I use spring clamps - they are cheap, made of black plastic, and available at all hardware stores. I used to have a bunch of rubber strips cut from old car inner tubes but most tyres are tubeless now - still, you could ask at a local garage or tyre store if they have any they are throwing out.
I have some Kleen Klay which is sulphur free but to soft and greasy for good sculpting, but ok for building the wall to separate the mould halves. aFor sculpting I used Chavant NSP (Non Sulphur Plasticine) Medium hardness which is better, and both of those work fine with platinum cure silicones. I have some Hard NSP as well but haven't used it yet. Both are dark reddish- brown in colour.
All my no-name industrial plasticine, and my Roma Plastilina, are useless for silicone puppets since they contain sulphur.
I also found that if I previously cast latex in a mould, the platinum silicone would not cure on it.
Armature wire - check.
Ultra Cal 30 - check.
Mould release - I used soap - pieces of a bar of soap shaved into hot water and mixed. It worked. It also works for foam latex.
Platsil Gel-10 - check. I also tested Smooth-On Ecoflex 00-30 which is softer, another animator brought some and we cast a head in it. I like it. Unlike Platsil with Smith's deadener added, it doesn't go tacky on the surface. I will still add deadener for the stuff I pour inside. I just bought some old stock Ecoflex at half price, a big risk but I'll see if it works.
Psycho Paint - check. You need the base, and paint or pigment to colour it - I got the genuine pigments but acrylic paints also worked when I tried mixing them in.
Clamp straps for mould - check. For some moulds I use spring clamps - they are cheap, made of black plastic, and available at all hardware stores. I used to have a bunch of rubber strips cut from old car inner tubes but most tyres are tubeless now - still, you could ask at a local garage or tyre store if they have any they are throwing out.
Sunday, 18 July 2010 23:03
The foam is called 'Soma Foama' and you can order it from 'Smooth-On Inc'. I can't help you with locating a local supplier to you, you'll need to Google that for yourself. :)
Sunday, 18 July 2010 19:48
Gene,
When you say foam silicone, what is the product and from whom do you purchase it from? I am looking for a local distributer in Virginia for the Ultra Cal 30 because shipping will cost more than the product. But the rest I am sure I will need to order online. I really want to express my thanks, in how every one shares information. It is a true love of the craft. I so admire the work of Ron, Marc, Nick, and so many others. You guys keep the art alive!
Sunday, 18 July 2010 19:44
Emily's right, I should have mentioned the deadener. That's called 'Smith's Deadener' if you wanna look that up. But bear in mind that the Deadener only softens the rubber and makes it more stretchy but, it won't lighten the puppet in any way.
When I started casting in silicone, I used the Deadener to make the puppets bend better but, I needed to find a way to lighten them because the dense rubber is so heavy that it makes it nearly impossible to put a puppet in a running pose if all that weight needs to be supported by a single ankle joint. So I switched from using the Deadener to the foam and that really helped a lot!
The foam is a bit tricky to work with so if you try it out, let me know before-hand and I'll clue you in to how much I don't know. :) (just kidding, that'll be a good discussion to have)
When I started casting in silicone, I used the Deadener to make the puppets bend better but, I needed to find a way to lighten them because the dense rubber is so heavy that it makes it nearly impossible to put a puppet in a running pose if all that weight needs to be supported by a single ankle joint. So I switched from using the Deadener to the foam and that really helped a lot!
The foam is a bit tricky to work with so if you try it out, let me know before-hand and I'll clue you in to how much I don't know. :) (just kidding, that'll be a good discussion to have)
Sunday, 18 July 2010 19:18
I've used Sculpey before for making the main piece to be cast - it works fine.
If you're going with a fatter puppet you might want to add deadener to the list. You paint in a skin of Platsil, then fill it with a mix of Platsil and deadener to keep it softer and more flexible.
If you're going with a fatter puppet you might want to add deadener to the list. You paint in a skin of Platsil, then fill it with a mix of Platsil and deadener to keep it softer and more flexible.
Sunday, 18 July 2010 10:08
Hey Gene -
I'm not sure about the Van Aken clay or Sculpey. I've worked a lot with Sculpey but never for making plaster molds from or casting silicone from. I'm not saying that I know they won't work, I just don't know. I only use Chavant NSP clay for the sculpture when I'm planning to cast silicone. Van Aken clay for the mold making process I'm sure will be fine.
The mold making process can be identical as it is for making a mold for casting foam latex so, you can review the list of things I used in my mold making tutorial. (brushes, burlap, Vaseline, etc.) Here's a link to that...
http://www.animateclay.com/index.php/community/videos/93-isomer/video/219-Mold+Making+Tutorial+Part+1
Don't forget you'll need something to color the Psycho Paint because when you order that, it's just the base for the paint you're getting. So plan on getting either the Silc-Pig tints or (cheaper option) acrylic paints to color it with. If you do decide to go with acrylics, I like to use Createx airbrush colors. The thicker tube acrylics like you would use to paint a picture with might be harder to mix into the Psycho Paint.
And lastly, the mold straps are needed but, there's no pressure or heat involved so, you could also use spring clamps or bungee cords or whatever to keep the mold closed... unless you plan on trying out using silicone expanding foam, (Soma-Foama) THAT you would need to keep the mold closed tight for.
As you work, Please post photos of your sculpture and let me know how large it is. Different sized puppets require different thinking, like if a puppet that has a fat belly is only 6 inches tall, just casting in Platsil would be fine - but if that same design were to be made 12 to 18 inches tall, putting foam inside the puppet is going to be a good idea to keep both the weight and cost down.
Cheers! -Ron
I'm not sure about the Van Aken clay or Sculpey. I've worked a lot with Sculpey but never for making plaster molds from or casting silicone from. I'm not saying that I know they won't work, I just don't know. I only use Chavant NSP clay for the sculpture when I'm planning to cast silicone. Van Aken clay for the mold making process I'm sure will be fine.
The mold making process can be identical as it is for making a mold for casting foam latex so, you can review the list of things I used in my mold making tutorial. (brushes, burlap, Vaseline, etc.) Here's a link to that...
http://www.animateclay.com/index.php/community/videos/93-isomer/video/219-Mold+Making+Tutorial+Part+1
Don't forget you'll need something to color the Psycho Paint because when you order that, it's just the base for the paint you're getting. So plan on getting either the Silc-Pig tints or (cheaper option) acrylic paints to color it with. If you do decide to go with acrylics, I like to use Createx airbrush colors. The thicker tube acrylics like you would use to paint a picture with might be harder to mix into the Psycho Paint.
And lastly, the mold straps are needed but, there's no pressure or heat involved so, you could also use spring clamps or bungee cords or whatever to keep the mold closed... unless you plan on trying out using silicone expanding foam, (Soma-Foama) THAT you would need to keep the mold closed tight for.
As you work, Please post photos of your sculpture and let me know how large it is. Different sized puppets require different thinking, like if a puppet that has a fat belly is only 6 inches tall, just casting in Platsil would be fine - but if that same design were to be made 12 to 18 inches tall, putting foam inside the puppet is going to be a good idea to keep both the weight and cost down.
Cheers! -Ron
Sunday, 18 July 2010 05:44